Fetchez le Python

Technical blog on the Python programming language, in a pure Frenglish style

Marketing Python is urgent, part #1: a Python Certification

Thing changes

For about three years, I had one of the best place a Python developer could dream of in France : one of the most Python-friendly company out there (Nuxeo), that was promoting the language everytime it was possible. In this context, even though you’ve told so, you don’t feel how Python is small compared to Java in the business area. You just don’t want to hear about it because you develop great software, and feel happy with Python.

But time are changing, and when your company decides to drop Python for Java for the main language, a lot of things goes through one developer’s head.

  • First of all, I felt like back in college, where people were laughing at me and my redhat box, because everybody was under Windows and thaught Linux was a piece of crap. I felt like I was pushed into some kind of minority. Weird feeling.
  • Secondly, I felt a little bitter because I understood, while all arguments of such a switch are quite understandable, that it’s mostly a problem of money, because Python can do what Java does. If I would’ve been a billionnaire 10 years ago, Python would be the standard nowadays, and all arguments could be flipped ;) . But the reality is here now, Java is the main stream language in OSS. Java and its related technologies are interesting, but I still look at them like I look at Ruby: what are their strengths ? How Python can learn of them ? This is a pragmatic Pythoneer habit.
  • Last but not least, with all the evangelism I’ve been doing these past years, in english or in french through my book or the AFPY user group, I still want to promote Python and be part of its community.

But how ?

This blog will throw ideas about marketing Python

All the talks about my company switch makes me feel like marketing Python is urgent, so it grows in companies, schools, etc. Looking at how Ruby does its marketing is quite interesting, but this language is still too young to be able to differenciate the reality from the buzz effect yet.

Looking at how Linux did, and still does its marketing, is more interesting because you know what worked and what didn’t.

So this blog will focus on a few things that could be done. And this first post focuses on Python Certification.

Important notice: i have digged to find some infos on this topic, but if I missed something that is beeing done, please forgive me and comment this post.

A Python Certification

Linux certifications, brought for example by Dan York and the LPI, have became great tools to promote Linux in business.

The benefits are quite simple :

  • Certification centers promote Linux and pay big money in advertisment to attract students
  • The LPI is a non-profit organization and can therefore create a standard in certification, that is followed by everyone
  • The students became in their own Linux evangelists, and there’s a crowd of students out there that are just waiting to know the truth ;)
  • Companies can rely on it to hire
  • Developers can obtain it to get recognized

So what about Python ? Take the last chapter I wrote, change “Linux” by “Python”, and “LPI” by “PSF” and you get the idea.

I really believe the Python Software Foundation should create a Python certification. That’s probably what we are going to dig on our side at AFPY and maybe come up with some proposition at the PSF. And you, readers ? what are your opinion about it ? I’d love to hear it.
Next time I’ll talk about the Python Program Certification, which is basically the same idea but applies to software standardisation and quality, and about cheesecake, which is a great idea.

Filed under: afpy, linux, marketing, psf, python

22 Responses

  1. Fabien says:

    In my case, I would really love to be able to take a python certification. I think it would improve the use of python in company.

  2. Jean-Marc says:

    Hi Tarek,

    here is an interesting article to read:

    From Java to Ruby – Risk (InfoQ)

    best /JM

  3. JS says:

    I think that python is seen like a toy for studients, not a tool to develop heavy applications. In a way, it’s true, python is not compiled, and it’s look easy to write code with it.
    But there are big companies who uses python, like google, or the nasa, and there is a big application server based on python : zope.
    So if we want to have a certification, we need to imply thoses big companies to make the marketing.
    If we can say : look, python is a used language, look at google and the nasa, they don’t use java, they uses python !
    This would be a great improvement.
    Sorry for the english it’s 9h00

  4. bananasfk says:

    We have a webserver with perl/php – i have no ‘certs’ in either, a certificate means nothing

    I dont see google thinking ‘we need a python certificate’.

  5. tarekziade says:

    @Fabien : I agree, that’s a recognition for your skills

    @Jean-Marc: Great link there, thanks

    @JS: Yes, and I think http://python.org and http://pythonology.org/
    are doing quite a good job on showing who is using Python in business,
    through directories.

    But don’t you think non-profit organizations like the PSF should
    take the lead at first in proposing some kind of PSF/Python label the big
    companies can then use as a standard in certification field ?
    Like they do for such thing as “python powered” logo.

    @bananasfk: I am not sure to understand what you are saying. What
    I am trying to say here is not that you need a certificate to use, or
    code with Python. Just that a way to promote Python use would be
    to have a developer certificate, like linux has one, or php,
    or mysql.

  6. Paul Boddie says:

    First of all, sorry to hear about the job! Most of us would want our employer to move from Java to Python. But your focus on Python marketing couldn’t be more timely, and it’s alarming to see the inability of the community to move the situation forward.

    Certification may well be important in order to bless Python in the eyes of the suits, but I’m inclined to start looking at simpler things: how effectively the existing Python resources get their message across, how easy it is for newcomers to find what they’re looking for, and so on. Take the official Python site, for example: if you hadn’t seen Python before, wouldn’t you want to quickly navigate to a page showing what Python code actually looks like? Because when someone mentions “hot new language XYZ” on their blog, I’m impatient to see such things as opposed to a list of advocacy points.

    Of course, the power of “community” or “network activism” is that you can focus on certification, I can focus on other matters, and the net effect is greater than everyone staring down one particular issue. Nevertheless, I’m inclined to set up some pages on the python.org Wiki about this in the near future, and you might want to join in the brainstorm there, so keep your feed reader aimed at the Wiki and watch out for updates.

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  8. Ram Sambamurthy says:

    I agree. I think Java sucks. I’ve started python only about 2 weeks ago and I really love it.

    I shall be starting a technology institute soon, and I was thinking if I should get Java to be taught. I certainly cant ignore the fact that there are lots of idiots in the real world who know crap about java but bec the rest of the world is doing it they do it too.

    The students who graduate from the institute will certainly be faced with potential employers looking for Java-savvy candidates. So well, maybe we’ll teach Java but just the basics, but instead go heavy into Python. (and Ruby, etc)

    But friend, why not check out other companies who are into python? maybe it’s just time to “slither” away, as all pythons do.

  9. Simon TeW says:

    Thought you might like the point of view of someone who’s thinking of learning either Ruby or Python. I’ve been trawling through the web to decide which. Here are my impressions:

    Initially impressions: I was leaning towards Ruby for four reasons:

    1) Ruby was where the buzz was.

    2) Several forum entries suggested the Python user community were anal-retentive snobs (whereas the Ruby community was supposedly much more welcoming to newbies). Time and again there was mention of “one true way” of doing things, and if you didn’t already know what that one true way was, then you were considered an idiot by the Python community.

    3) The word on the street was that Python had had its chance and blown it – it hadn’t developed that buzz and was now being eclipsed by the bright new thing, Ruby.

    4) Ruby had Rails.

    Digging a bit deeper, however, I’m now leaning towards Python. Why? Another six reasons:

    1) Forum posts I’ve read more recently suggest that Python and Ruby are roughly equivalent. Ruby is better in some respects, Python in others.

    2) Ruby seems to be more narrowly focused, Python seems to be useful for a wider range of applications.

    3) Python does have several frameworks, like Django, that are similar to Rails (although not so widely known in the world outside the user community).

    4) Python seems to have library support that Ruby lacks.

    5) Ruby is dog slow. Python ain’t all that rapid but it’s several times faster than Ruby.

    6) The Google programming challenge. They include Python but not Ruby. Everyone in the IT world knows that Google has some of the smartest cookies working for it. Their unwitting endorsement of Python as opposed to Ruby counts.

    So it seems to me you’ve got a few avenues to pursue: Change the general IT populace’s perception that Python users are humourless snobs. Market your frameworks so that folks know Python has its equivalent of Rails (and prefereably don’t dilute the message by pushing a dozen frameworks, keep the number of frameworks you’re pushing low). Push the library support and speed versus Ruby. Push the Google connection – it carries a lot of weight.

  10. Ant says:

    Certification is a great tool for companies and developers alike. Management love certification. They generally have no technical skills themselves, and so must rely on others to evaluate the skills of their prospective employees for them. Certification gives them a way of seeing from a CV that a developer has at least the required understanding of the language.

    As far as developers go, it is similarly a way of opening doors that would otherwise be closed. I personally have had this experience with Java and Sun Certification – I had no industrial experience of Java development (though I’d been programming in it in an academic setting for 5 years) and all of the employers out there were asking for 2 years J2EE industrial experience. I only got interviews at the time because of the Certification. Now I have 2 years+ in industry, and the cert is no longer as important to me.

    It would be nice to get into a Python dev role (J2EE is hard work to develop in due to the immense code-build-deploy-test cycle, where Python is still fun), but I can see the same hurdles there. No *industrial* Python experience. Python certification would no doubt go a long way in employers eyes to get me to an interview.

  11. DoctorPepper says:

    I’m totally not in favor of a certification of any kind. I vividly saw what Microsoft’s MCSE and MCSD certifications became (a joke) in the IT world. Yes, to the CIO, MCSE and MSCD mean a lot, but to the folks in the trenches, they mean nothing, and the holders of said certifications are sneered at.

    I’m a consultant. I worked for Merrill Lynch for four years, and did a tremendous amount of coding for them in Perl. The mainframe programmers just kind of smiled at me and shook their heads at first, believing Perl to be nothing but a toy. When I consistantly delivered the information they were requesting after a very short time developing a Perl script, their tone changed. Now they do quite a lot of Perl development themselves.

    I’ve been consulting for IBM for almost a year and a half now. When I started with them last May, I quickly found out that Python was the scripting language of choice, not just in our department, but in corporate IBM. You wouldn’t believe how big Python is in IBM! I decided it was time to learn it, so I did, and I’ve been a happy Python convert ever since.

    The moral of my little story here is a certification does not count for anything. The only people that care one whit about certifications are CIO’s, that usually don’t know what “Python” or “Perl” is in the first place. Mere buzz words they pick up in college and in magazines. The thing that will grow Python is to use Python, and to show _consistantly_ how Python can save the organization time and money.

    To be honest, I’m also a big fan of Java, but I don’t use Java when Python will do the trick. My biggest selling point to potential employers isn’t any one particular language or skill, it is the bredth and depth of my knowledge. Don’t put all of your eggs in one basket ie: learn other languages. If you know only one or two languages, you are more of a liability than an asset. You don’t have to be extremely fluent in all of them, but the mere fact you have a half-dozen or so languages on your resume speaks volumes on your ability to learn and adapt.

  12. Paul Boddie says:

    As promised, see this page for some of my thoughts on the matter:

    http://wiki.python.org/moin/MarketingPython

    My belief is that marketing Python has to involve every aspect of the “product”, not just the opportunistic injection of “news” into various channels in order to generate casual interest in the language and platform, which is what some people seem to think is sufficient.

  13. tarekziade says:

    @Paul Boddie: great points, the web site in also a major
    point for promoting Python. You are right, the site misses
    some kind of “take a tour” or “try out” central link in
    the homepage. I’ll look forward for your entries in the wiki
    and join.

    Edit: I have just seen your link, I am going to look right now

    @Ram Sambamurthy: Great news for your institute, I wish you
    the best.
    Company that uses Python are already involved in the communities
    but as far as I know, for those which provide Python courses,
    they are doing their materials on their own, and maybe
    all those company could sit down together and thunk about
    a common base.

    @Simon TeW: I think Ruby had a great effect over the
    Python community, for all the reasons you mentioned.

    For web frameworks, RoR made a big impact on how Python frameworks
    evolve: they all now look at what is beeing done on RoR side,
    and that’s very good.

    About Google, I can’t wait to see this company getting more
    and more involved in making Python bigger. I also have a big
    hope on what they will do next.

    @Ant: You make an important point here. I think Java strength also
    comes from the way they build up things: everything is based
    on standards. On Python side, even though it’s not as big in
    the industrial field, pushing PEPs the same way JSRs are would
    be a good thing.

    @DoctorPepper: The point is, if you are a great and smart developer,
    (and it’s seem so), you won’t have any problem to sell and promote
    the use of Python, because you’ll know when and how to use it.

    Now take a student that is freshly gratuated, with no experience at all.
    He won’t be able to sell anything but her diplomas and certification.

    About time saving and money saving: maybe we could (i can’t find any
    experience on the web about that)
    precisely measure and compare a project ran in Python, and the same in Java,
    that would be a good experience. Hard to set up though.

    Now about learning other language, you are darn’ right: that’s probably
    the most important point and should be the advice #1.

  14. Brian Yerk says:

    On a side note- I’m a hardware/msca type that is ridiculously fascinated by coding and making the computer do what I want it to do nothaving it tell me what it won’t do ;) I’ve dabbled in python but hypothetically, if I wanted to move more towards development, what would you all suggest as far as how to get myself there? back to school for compsci? learn some languages on my own and have a few mock projecs developed to prove to the hiring managers i’m capable? See what I’m asking? (hope this is not too off topic but You all seem fairly proficient and I believed your insights could be valuable)
    :) cheers
    Bri

  15. Brian Yerk says:

    Oh and also- for my 2 copper, I’ve never found the python community to be snobbish and rude to newbs. Everyone I’ve interacted with has been very nice and helpful.

  16. dorai says:

    Google does not use Python instead of Java (as someone mentioned in the comments). From what I heard in a seminar in Silicon Valley, Python is the third most popular language at Google (at least it was about 6 months ago). They have Guido and many other Python luminaries.

    I think one of the ways to promote Python is to show cool applications being built with Python. The popularity of these applications should drive adoption.

    Initially it may be better to use Jython or IronPython so that you can play around in the Java and .NET environment. This leverages existing Java libraries and .NET libraries and improve productivity.

    A few Python code contents may help as well. I think PHP has a lot more adoption than Python or Ruby. Some of the most popular products like MediaWiki, WordPress are written in PHP. Why did they chose PHP instead of Python? I think we need to find this out as well. Zend is doing a great job (they have deals with both Oracle and Microsoft) of PR. Having a great language is not obviously enough.

  17. wfox says:

    maybe with a petition online we can get a Certification program

    Sorry for my english

  18. xor007 says:

    Certification! Certification! Certification!

    ***INTERVIEW WITH HIRING MANAGER***
    Q- What is “the Entreprise”?
    A- An organisation where nobody is ever liable : rules and regulations make sure nobody ever makes a mistake…(really?)

    Q- What could make a hiring manager liable for hiring an unskilled python programmer in “the Entrepise”?
    A- Not having “verified” his credentials.

    Q- How much does it cost to verify python credentials currently?
    A- Very difficult coz have to technically evaluate check references for python projects he worked on. x*$10 000.

    Q- Why did you mess up and employ this idiot as PHP programmer?
    A- How could I know? Zend Certifies he is good so I did not make a mistake! :-)

    Q- Should we choose python for this project?
    A- No! I have no safe way of getting talent for it.

    P.S.: I had 3 different job offers to double my salary within 5 weeks of passing my RHCE in “Entreprises”. I make miracles daily with python but only team members in the trenches are aware of it. Management does not count python as one of my usefull skills. They know a wrote script/program, they assume it is Java or Perl.

  19. TimothyAWiseman says:

    Well, I am joining this thread years late, but it is definitely easier to argue for Python in a corporate space when it can be shown that there are many people with the training available, and I for one would be interested in picking up a certification from PSF if it ever exists.

  20. Tarek Ziadé says:

    @TimothyAWiseman imho I think if one certification is created one day, it will be by a corporate company, and maybe held after that by the PSF.

  21. bbizbor says:

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